Curse

The milk shake · Jun 27, 2006, 08:16 AM // 08:16

all build have a weakness perhaps you should try exploiting that aka DIVERISON

Minus Sign · Jun 27, 2006, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Not sure how you work that one out... a Touch skill does damage, thus it is an attack skill.

They are attack skills because they do damage to other people.

A.net already stated that experise is working as intended.

life stealing is not damage.

Theus · Jun 27, 2006, 10:09 AM // 10:09

The only reason I want to see them nerfed is because i'm sick and tired of playing Cripple+Degen and Diversion builds.I go to RA to simply make builds when im bored.

Dragannia · Jun 27, 2006, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Touch Rangers are fine IMO. If they were ever to be nerfed, IMO it should be to change Vamp Touch and Bite to "Deal X shadow damage. You gain this much in health."

RTSFirebat · Jun 27, 2006, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

life stealing is not damage.

How do you work that one out?

Any spell or skill which takes away life of the enemy by direct damage or life stealing is an attack.

Sure you gaining HP from the touch skill, but your damaging the other person at the same time. Therefore is is an attack.

Explain how Life Stealing is not a attack... if it stole life but didn't damage them that would make sense.

Currently you post makes no sense.

Finally there is nothing wrong with Touch Rangers....

Turbobusa · Jun 27, 2006, 12:10 PM // 12:10

it is an attack but it doesn't do damages, it steals your life. it can't be reduced by AL or monk spells. that's the difference

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragannia

IMO it should be to change Vamp Touch and Bite to "Deal X shadow damage. You gain this much in health."

/signed

shardfenix · Jun 27, 2006, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragannia

Touch Rangers are fine IMO. If they were ever to be nerfed, IMO it should be to change Vamp Touch and Bite to "Deal X shadow damage. You gain this much in health."

That would make it less broken, but still powerful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

How do you work that one out?
Any spell or skill which takes away life of the enemy by direct damage or life stealing is an attack.

Sure you gaining HP from the touch skill, but your damaging the other person at the same time. Therefore is is an attack.

Explain how Life Stealing is not a attack... if it stole life but didn't damage them that would make sense.

Finally there is nothing wrong with Touch Rangers....

Wrong. Vamp touch/bite/touch of agony are all SKILLS, not attacks. Vampyric bite and touch DO NOT deal actual damage. As such, effects like Healing Seed and Mark of Protection will not trigger from vamp touches. Please do 5 seconds of research before pretending to know what you're talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Currently you post makes no sense.

Also, look up "irony."

On a last note, there are 2 ways A-net can go about fixing the touch ranger problem. If they thought it was way overpowered, they could chance the touch skills to spells, so expertise would not affect them.

Or, if they decide it needs a small nerf, they would change the skills to deal damage and gain life seperately.

bringer di morte · Jun 27, 2006, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daxime

Well since ANet added Vampiric Bite. they can now spam Vampiric Touch/Bite to keep their HP up. I can't believe ANet couldn't see this coming when they decided to add this duplicate skill. Touch Rangers seem to be extremely popular in Alliance Battles now since they have such high damage output and high survivability. I remember I encountered very few Touch Rangers back in FPE weekend.

In case you haven't noticed, Factions has a bunch of "duplicate" prophecies skills. This is so that people who own JUST Factions can still get the skills that ANet thought needed to be in both. IE: Crystal Wave = Teinai's Crystals, Vampiric Touch = Vampiric Bite, Teinai's Heat = Searing Heat, etc. Now you don't see anyone getting all angry about those other duplicates, because they could easily be put into a spike damage build. Touching is just one of the easier builds to play.

frickett · Jun 27, 2006, 12:19 PM // 12:19

I don't see the big deal, I have only gone up against one touch ranger. It isn't like they are everywhere, like 55 monks.

Isis Mordecai · Jun 27, 2006, 12:20 PM // 12:20

IMO, touch ranger's use skills that in theory should require ur char to reach out and touch someone to steal the health so really when u think about it, if i was blinded i know my ability to reach out n grab someone would be made worse.

Like, a warrior can stand infront of someone with his sword/hammer/axe n be blinded and miss most of the time while swinging his huge weapon about like mad at a target thats one step infront of him, yet a touch skill hits home everytime. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....naw pal.

always confused me.

shardfenix · Jun 27, 2006, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by bringer di morte

In case you haven't noticed, Factions has a bunch of "duplicate" prophecies skills. This is so that people who own JUST Factions can still get the skills that ANet thought needed to be in both. IE: Crystal Wave = Teinai's Crystals, Vampiric Touch = Vampiric Bite, Teinai's Heat = Searing Heat, etc. Now you don't see anyone getting all angry about those other duplicates, because they could easily be put into a spike damage build. Touching is just one of the easier builds to play.

But the other skills don't do unpreventable life loss and heal the user at the same time, all for 6 energy. Yes, putting 2 heal others or 2 penetrating blows on one bar is effective, but not as broken as touch/bite. Touchers weren't that good before factions simply because their damage was preventable.

bringer di morte · Jun 27, 2006, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

How do you work that one out?

Any spell or skill which takes away life of the enemy by direct damage or life stealing is an attack.

Sure you gaining HP from the touch skill, but your damaging the other person at the same time. Therefore is is an attack.

Explain how Life Stealing is not a attack... if it stole life but didn't damage them that would make sense.

At your first statement: Then isn't basically every damage dealing spell an attack? I don't think so. Go tell ANet that Earthquake should be an attack.
Second statement: Like 8/10's of all skills in GW are damage dealing, but most of them aren't attacks. If the damage was physical damage, such as blunt, slashing, or pierced, you would have a point. But you don't. It's stealing health, not attacking the other person.
Final statement: Did you just contradict yourself again? How can you steal health from them and not hurt them? It's called STEALING for a reason..

curtman · Jun 27, 2006, 01:43 PM // 13:43

This build is quite possibly the cheapest thing ever to be in a game, even ahead of the CS AWP. This should be fixed

Solution is either a. Touch skills cancel the dodge skills, which makes them killable, and/or b. put the touch skills in soul so only necro primaries can use them effectively. Solution A is the best.

I have seen many rounds where 8+ Luxons are using touch rangers, and it is getting old. Most I have seen on Kurzik is 4.

Ge4ce · Jun 27, 2006, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Touch rangers are pretty much a joke. Had a touch ranger at my tale once...he died, not me.

/not signed

makosi · Jun 27, 2006, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Not sure how you work that one out... a Touch skill does damage, thus it is an attack skill.

They are attack skills because they do damage to other people.

A.net already stated that experise is working as intended.

Ok Vampiric Touch is an attack skill because it deals dmg? Blackout doesn't but that costs less with Expertise so what's your response to that? Anet aren't fixing it because they get flamed for nerfing. That's the bottom line.

RTSFirebat · Jun 27, 2006, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Ok Vampiric Touch is an attack skill because it deals dmg? Blackout doesn't but that costs less with Expertise so what's your response to that? Anet aren't fixing it because they get flamed for nerfing. That's the bottom line.

Debateable. Do you work for A.net? No. Do I? Nope.

If and when they may ever nerf or change touch skills is unknown.

My Touch Ranger has been beaten plenty of times be Mes who simply disable one of my touch skills.

People need to learn to Counter, and Touch Rangers are easy to counter if you come ready. I love using my Cripshot Ranger against them for example ^^

lyra_song · Jun 27, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

I dont think that Touchers are overpowered (read my past posts) but im sick of all this arguing. So how about a proposal to change something to satisfy some people?
-----------------------
Proposal
Add a new category of skills called Lifestealing. Vampiric weapons would be categorized as Lifestealing as well. This way we can differentiate from Physical, Elemental, and Lifesteal damage.

Affected Skills
Vampiric Bite: Lifestealing Skill
Vampiric Touch: Lifestealing Skill

Lifestealing skills cost the same to a Necromancer (nothing changes for necros, they are unaffected) but only receive HALF the affect of expertise (Just like how Ritualist spirits give only half the affect of Soul Reaping).

Vampiric Gaze: Lifestealing Spell

Still a spell, still backfired, etc.

Desired Effect
This would tone down the power of the touch ranger skills without competely nerfing them to death.

At 16 Expertise, a ranger can use Vampiric Touch for the cost of 10 energy (i think...)

------------------
so? can we behave now and not fight? (except in RA, TA, GvG, HA, and AB)

sigried · Jun 27, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

i dont think this would work besides they will nerfe more the necro class an not the ranger.

I think it is a awsome build for your info i dont have a touch ranger. But the idea od nefing the touch is like refin the necro more than what they did already and that sucks.

Mov · Jun 28, 2006, 03:54 PM // 15:54

/signed

Something must be done to touch rangers, if they are underpowered like all you touch rangers above say they are, then why is 60-70% of alliance battle players touch rangers? Alliance battles have become Touch Ranger battles, it sucks.

They must all think they have advantage or there wouldnt be so god dam many of em.

I think being able to stop those attacks with blind is a great idea, if a warrior cant hit you with a big fat hammer, sword, or axe when right in front of players then i think the same should be done to them.

sigried · Jun 28, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

cant nerfed them cuz if they do they will nefed the necro class